Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
MysteryKat25Participant
@Demileto wrote:
The most crackpot theory I’ve seen about this is that none other than PETER PAN is Hook’s father! 😆
That’s a new one! I’ve heard lots of Hook is Pan theories but uh…Hook’s father being Peter is definitely new.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI absolutely loved the book-ending of this season! Started off episode 2×01 with the man who didn’t come back (on purpose anyway & this is key) and the one who did! More proof we are on the right track. Nothing in this show is done by accident, especially when it’s that big.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantNow that we’re all on the bunny train I have a song stuck in my head from the opening of The First Easter Rabbit. It’s called “There’s That Rabbit” and I can’t seem to find just that clip anywhere. It’s in the opening of the movie though if anybody wants to see what I’m talking about. (Does anybody remember that movie besides me?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juXYDabYmec (The song I’m thinking of starts about a minute in, just found this on youtube but can’t find just that song but it’s definitely what I’m thinking of with all the bunny talk).
As for the issues with the t-word and Henry’s book: I believe we saw a picture of Jefferson in the book, but not Alice. The picture Henry was looking at in that episode was actually a picture of little Snow from the episode after that so we haven’t seen Alice I don’t think.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI’m inclined to believe part of Hook’s story about his past if only because the best lies have some kernel of truth. Even if he was just hunting for information from Bae, he knew how to relate to him on that level because I’m convinced he was in a similar situation. It also explains why he was actually willing to give up revenge agenda to try to give Bae what neither of them had because he saw something in him that reminded him of himself. I think it was also confirmation to him that Rumple was even worse than he thought. Not only did he kill Milah and take Hook’s hand, he destroyed his son’s life by abandoning him and choosing power over him.
Not sure where else to put this so I’ll throw this in here for now (RG please move it if you feel it needs to be somewhere else or point me in the right direction!)
I found an interesting post on the history of Davy Jones (some have theorized a relation to Hook because how many FTL characters do we have a last name on? It’s there for a reason).
The full thing can be found here: http://davyjones02.hubpages.com/hub/Old-sea-legends-The-Incredible-story-of-Davy-Jones-and-his-Locker but I will highlight what I found interesting.
The different stories of Davy Jones:
Pub Owner: In one of the stories Davy Jones was the owner of a British Pub who would get sailors intoxicated and lock them in his ale locker and later lock their unconscious body in ships that were passing through the harbor. The story also tells of his pub going bankrupt and him deciding to become a pirate by stealing a ship from the harbor. He then supposidly sailed the Atlantic Ocean and hijacked other ships where he would decapitate or keelhaul most of the ships crew. The surviving crew would be locked in the ship and the ship would be sunk. The story also tells of this pub owner selling his soul to the devil.
Captain of the Flying Dutchman: In some stories Davy Jones is the captain of the Flying Dutchman named “Vanderdecken”. The Flying Dutchman supposidly was a ghostship that had to wander the seas forever because it could not make port. The story goes that Vanderdecken hailed out to the sky on a trip from Holland to Batavia: “God or Devil… I will sail around the Cape, even if it means sailing towards our last judgement”. then the Devil took control of the ship and as a price the ship had to sail the seas forever, the dead crew working on forever without saying anything ever again…
Let’s start with the Pub Owner – didn’t Hook say his father was a fugitive? He didn’t say from what, but what I gathered from his story was that one day he & his father set out on a ship to sail the realms and then one night he just disappeared because he was a fugitive which means he was running from something that happened before being on a ship more than likely. I don’t remember if Hook said specifically that they ran off to be pirates, but it would be interesting if his father turned out to have been a pub owner who went bankrupt and did something drastic, forcing him to take his son and flee, eventually leaving him to further escape.
Since we do get backstories eventually I fully expect to at least see a tiny bit about Killian’s father and more than likely, there will have been some “good” reason for him to abandon him as that it typically the case (or we’re at least shown why the CHARACTER thinks it’s a good reason) but we don’t know how old Hook was when this happened etc. (it could be like Milah not wanting to go back for Bae until he was older as a pirate ship is no place for a 6 year old).
I also highlighted the selling the soul to the devil bit for those people who enjoy the Killipan theories.
Now on to the Captain of the Flying Dutchman: “could not make port” reminds me of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies (obviously) where he could only be on land for 1 day every 10 years. The reason it jumped out OUAT-related is that supposedly, as far as we know, once you set foot on land you can never leave. (We know in some cases that isn’t true but we have yet to see Hook set foot on land either so…might or might not be of any significance).
The other part I underlined was just because it was worded as a “price” for the choices he made. The idea that it’s sailing around forever because of that is similar to there always being a price for using magic, as well as the fact that the ship that is sailed by Hook spent an awful lot of time in Neverland which would mirror the ship of Davy Jones being forced to pay for his sins and sail forever.
I’m not sure if I love any of the Davy Jones / Killipan theories, but I noticed the wording on this stuff and thought I’d pass it along for anybody who is looking for connecting ideas, especially since some of these things scream OUAT to me (that could just be the magical OUAT filter that is now on everything and taking over my life…but it’s fun and sometimes adds merit to theories, so let the theorizing commence and make of it…whatever you will). Look forward to seeing what people come up with! I’m very interested in Hook backstory and why he is named Killian Jones (there’s always a reason, always).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@steliokontos1 wrote:
Just got a vision for the opening shot for season 3 based on that drawing :). Imagine a close up of the lense of Hook’s spyglass so we’re all made to think it’s Hook but they pan back to show it’s really Emma holding the lense and she’s dressed in an awesome pirate outfit now with Hook standing behind her and he tells her something like… “I told you before you’d make a hell of pirate”
So this is how people start wrting fanfics lol
That is EXACTLY how it begins!
I’ve only ever written any for Tin Man and that was ages ago but I am planning on doing some this summer for CaptainSwan for sure! It’s time I put my rambling to good use and I need to do my summer writing challenges anyway and hopefully get something edited and sent out by the end of the year…. Basically instead of just rambling on in here (sorry guys! I don’t realize just how much I write sometimes til I have to keep scrolling :S), I can aid the fandom a bit better hopefully with some fanfic to tide us over instead. After all anybody seeing this thread basically agrees anyway (for the most part) or at least tolerates it enough not to say anything which basically = me preaching to the choir when I go on a tangent (sorry!!!)
I will say though that seeing all of the things that people have brought in here about the things they’ve noticed that help make us feel a part of something legit rather than the freakouts that I (and maybe some others) were having awhile back and every little bit helps show we’re not delusional so I am all for that! (Can you tell that word really bugged me the other night? I love a good discussion and I know it’s going to take a LOT to ever get anybody to like it – I hope the finale helped people like Hook a little more and I think it might have – but every little bit to help US feel like WE have a real chance is a good thing. This time next season I want to see a lot more support for CS and more people switching over and being able to say we were here all along and believed in it). *Fingers crossed*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantShe *might* be able to look the part but I’d definitely be disappointed. Personally I just don’t like her voice, and she’s got too much drama etc etc that the show definitely doesn’t need (our cast is awesome and gets along and egos are checked at the door/non-existant) and nothing like what I imagine for Ariel. All depends on what twist they want to put on her and I’ll deal with whatever they do of course, but would not be my first choice (not sure who WOULD be my first choice right now, but definitely not Miley).
I pretty much feel the way about this idea as I did about PeeWee Herman being the voice of the white rabbit on OUATIW (thank goodness they changed him out cause that rabbit is adorable!). It would feel more like stunt-casting and she’s supposedly super focused on her music anyway so would be hard to pin down for any long-lasting arc and I’m kinda hoping Ariel isnt a one-off character.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantSometimes things make sense (like Grumpy likely hearing about Lacey through trying to fix Sneezy) and others are a little more puzzling (like how Hook recognized an undead Maleficent).
I’ve heard more than enough rants about plotholes lately but with OUAT, while it may occasionally seem like a plothole (especially when people start talking about stuff that we don’t think they have reason to know anything about) I’m going to go with the dangling thread theory and just wait to see if that gap ever gets filled in. Usually (especially on rewatches) more is hinted at than we realized first time around (we do get very distracted by the big shiny stuff, don’t we?) but a lot is said in dialogue in various places that somehow connect back later. Or maybe we’ll get a big backstory eventually etc etc.
Do I currently have a plausible way to explain Hook knowing an undead Mal? Nope. Do I look forward to Mal backstory and seeing if they ever cross paths? Sure!
Sadly we’ve got a lot of moments like that because things have to end up on the cutting room floor (seriously grr…have people pay more for the ads but have less ads – that way they’re more “special” and fewer spots = higher demand). It’s very frustrating knowing they do have more story to tell, but it’s not like they can just tack any of it on to other episodes because each one is pretty self-contained. Stop leaving stuff off the show!!!
I get for time reasons etc it’s impossible to do everything but it is frustrating. Although, some people complain about the repeated dialogue etc etc so watching people have the same conversation over and over again doesn’t help much and it takes up time. It works for good effect in some places (ie: most characters had the reveal that Neal was Bae & Henry’s father back in Manhattan – and guessed it earlier than that – but Hook didn’t know or NEED to know until the moment in the diner and it payed off for dramatic effect and went with the storyline for the episode because it needed to hit him right then).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantSurayya – I’m not sure who they’re comparing to who at the moment! I would hazard a guess that they think Emma/Hook = Kate/Sawyer because they are so similar which means they think she will end up wtih Neal who I suppose they think is Jack. That works if you're bending the way of thinking so that your coupling pairs out but as I've just pointed out Neal basically pulled a Sawyer just now the portal vs helicopter thing. Honestly both guy could probably be used as Sawyer because of the thieving angle etc. I feel like I always end up in the Skate version of things where it doesn't ultimately happen but at the same time I have way more hope for CaptainSwan (and more reason to hope frankly) than I did with Skate. I think the portal scene being so similar to the helicopter scene is prime reason to either toss Lost logic out the window, or follow it down the rabbit hole and say that it points to Neal NOT ending up with Emma because Sawyer didn't end up with Kate in pretty much the exact same scenario. Whatever leads to CaptainSwan happening and being endgame I'm all for so whatever floats your boat. Just don't tell me my ship doesn't work because you cast Neal as Jack without paying much attention!
I think with regarding the S2 / Neverland stuff, they were excited to get the rights (finally) but had already revamped S1 around not having them so Hook may or may not have been a huge part of their plans other than they wanted to show him and have him connected to the Rumple / Bae storylines and then they loved what they saw in the Crocodile & Tallahassee (and really who can blame them) and that storylines may have shifted. I think once they saw what he could do they realized how awesome the NL storyline could be and moved that up a bit too probably.
I know a similar thing happened with Lost regarding Ben Linus – when we met him he was supposed to have a min-arc pretending to be Henry Gale…they loved Michael Emerson so much (as do I!) that they made him the leader of the Others and look how important / integral to the plot he became! They know a good thing when they see it. 😉
I’m glad that they saw just how electric and layered he can play Hook because it opened up a lot of story options for them. I remember the feedback from the writers being interesting around the time of Tallahassee and I have a feeling since it struck such a chord with people (and launched 2 ships…) that they probably moved a lot of stuff up to bring those options more to the forefront. Thank goodness they did that with Hook though I can’t imagine just ditching him after Tallahassee!
There were obviously issues later in the season with Colin’s leg and everything that benched him for a bit and gave Neal a lot of screentime and in some cases (not saying shippers aren’t loyal but…), people that are torn or borderline torn pretty much like whatever is getting screentime at the moment. If you love both / see both pairings, you’re more and more torn when you’re getting a lot of time with just the 1 and then the other comes back and you like that one too. Neal has gotten a lot of screentime which has helped promote the SF pairing a lot because screentime usually = importance and we’ve been seeing more of one than the other. I think the finale balanced things out though and was very positive on the CaptainSwan front and hopefully next season wil be a bit more balanced or skew the other way to give Hook a chance to win people over too….
At this point with how they’ve shown everything in the show and how important things are *technically speaking* with the quotes, the looks, the symbolism, the flashbacks and how they affect present-day etc PLUS all the interviews, the major hints at PaleyFest and the fact that the writers were so fired up about the CaptainSwan chemistry from Tallahassee, I will be very very upset and really not sure what to think if it doesn’t end up happening or be longterm. Not because of my love for the ship, but because we were given a number of legit reasons TO ship it. It’s not just they look good together, or their chemistry leapt off the screen. We saw the same thing for Mad Swan because the actors were interested in each other and are now dating. It’s more than that (and far less shallow than just thinking they’re hot together even though they are).
All of the things I mentioned above have given us reason to believe that within the mythology it’s a legitimate ship to follow based on how they’ve done everything else. If they’re yanking our chains I’m going to be ticked.
Even having a preference I stayed mostly neutral early on and tried not to get my hopes up because I could see storywise why both work and why both have fans (I still get the why part). That being said we haven’t been shown all that much in those *technical* ways, nor have any interviews really done much other than point out that Emma is still reacting to this love from a decade ago and she has some built up issues because of it and is a little jealous (completely understandable, he is the father of her kid and she didn’t get closure before – at this point I feel like the portal was her closure).
MRJ in his interviews from last week kept answering things the way the fans pretty much wanted: there’s still a chance with Emma, he cares about her, he gave her up so that she could be with her family, he was afraid she’d never forgive him etc etc. That’s fine, most of his fans want to hear he can still be with Emma, I get that. Everything an actor says has to be taken with a grain of salt but the interesting thing here is that the next batch of interviews he changes things a bit. He focuses on shipping happy endings. And not painting the writers into a corner and saying specifically what he wants. And the fact that Bae’s main focus is family. Not specifically Emma. FAMILY (which I firmly believe IS Bae’s main focus – he wants to be near Henry, he wants to find a way to reconnect with Rumple etc. He wants to belong and not be abandoned again). I think this second batch of interviews is interesting especially because of the “not painting writers into a corner” thing which makes me wonder if it’s possible if they saw he was answering one way and said “wait a minute, please don’t make it sound like they have to be together because we have other things in mind.”
Now, that may or may not have happened, it’s just a bit change that I noticed in one interview late in the season when most of his interviews he mentions SwanFire rather than Bae just wants a family. Mentioning the writers made it seem to me like maybe they keep changing things up and while anything is possible, he may have originally been pitched the role as son of Rumple, father of Henry, and then after Tallahassee I think they started playing on the SF thing because it struck a chord with so many people. Remember last season, we all were pretty much set to hate Henry’s dad because of how Emma talked of him but then Tallahassee gave him a ton of sympathy because he didn’t want to leave her, he just tried to do the right thing (and I think we all know how I feel about his storyline after that encounter with August. GRR too many reasons not to go back to him even though I adore Bae).
So…basically things change along the way. I think BOTH guys were brought into much heavier focus than originally intended (wasn’t this season supposed to be throwing a lot of suitors at Emma?), but I’m glad that we’re getting that. We can’t really get rid of either, especially if CaptainSwan is going to have a chance. We don’t want Emma to have to go for choice B because choice A is dead, that doesn’t work at all. Bae is obviously important to the fabric of the story since he was the reason for the curse and he’s important in the Rumple & Henry storylines regardless of who he’s paired with (I’m hoping for him & Regina personally – especially now that it looks like she’s turned a corner and if she can stick with it, could be good for him and vice versa).
That interview encouraged me by his thing about not wanting to force the writers to do what it sounded like he was saying they would (ie: encouraging too much SF love because there’s at least a possibility it’s not going to happen with where they are in the game now). I noticed with Meghan’s interview about leaving that her thing was kinda changed mid-season because they shorted Snow & Emma’s being away, and then they geared up toward Neverland etc etc, and with how the end of the season played out (especially the finale with SO much CaptainSwan stuff in it that wasn’t flirty or full of innuendos but was legit, character-driven moments that are real and substantial and callback to earlier things and build on them as we’ve discussed at length) I think that things DO change mid-season sometimes and that this may be one of those.
I think they liked what they saw in Tallahassee and brought the SF aspect to the forefront a bit more rather than just having Emma have issues with Neal because of all that but then his main focus would have been Rumple and Bae. Instead we got hints of him still wanting Emma (even though he was bound and determined to marry the psychopath Tamara while giggling that Emma was jealous but whatever). I think they brought him a bit too far front with that as a “potential suitor to Emma” but hopefully they can convincingly show her as being stronger now and not wanting to revert back to the person that she was.
No matter what happens they’re probably going to tick off half their fanbase which means lots of people threatening not to watch, others being determined that Emma & ____ is just a stepping stone (one way or the other) etc etc. Not everybody is going to be thrilled about how the pairings worked out (just like on Lost, goodness knows I wasn’t happy but I found a way to deal with it and still love the show).
I sincerely hope both guys find love with *someone* and that we can be happy for them as I love both characters, but if they set up too much stuff in favor of one *cough* CaptainSwan *cough* and then screw it up it’ll be a slap in the face – likewise if they keep portraying Neal as a puppy dog who keeps getting kicked and Hook as the guy who keeps taking things away from him, I can’t say I would blame his fans for being upset either (even though I see things from a different angle being a huge Hook & CaptainSwan fan). I think ultimately we need Emma & Neal to have an argument that ends up probably being a screaming match but somewhere down the line him realizing too that he & Emma were right 11 years ago and not now. He needs to SEE that and own up to that or we’re going to have to hear about it for forever (just like I would assume CaptainSwan people would rally together should all our foreshadowing of something real and lasting be for naught). They’re not setting up CaptainSwan as a fling (that ship sailed once Neal was “dead”). What we’ve seen so far is setting it up as an epic true love tale like all the rest. (And in none of those does the Disney princess revert back to being the timid girl she started out being I might add…)
Sorry for the rant, I didn’t have internet overnight (grr!) and I guess it all built up in wanting to respond!
Really need to go back and find interviews relating to Tallahassee to see what was said but given where the season ended up…I think they like CaptainSwan’s potential…a lot. 🙂
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
Agents of SHIELD. Major nerd over here love me some superheroes.
OUATinWL: YES. The trailer looks phenomenal. I can’t wait for this.
Dracula on NBC. Maybe…Maybe. It depends on how it looks when I see a promo.
Pretty much this + Intelligence (mid-season start) even if it is on against Castle (I knew I celebrated my Monday @ 10 shows all spreading out too soon, now there are 2-3 on Wed @ 8 which interferes with the podcast as well *sigh* I just can’t win!)
I have a few shows I already watch but I’m limiting the new ones I get attached to as much as possible. I definitely want to see OUATIW, Agents of SHIELD, and Intelligence though. I may give others a chance once I see promos etc but I have a lot of shows already (some I’m having to catch up on over the summer because they were just on all at once and I haven’t had time or motivation to do anything about it yet).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantAwesome post, thanks Obisgirl!
I really love that first pic, too cute. The “I Need a Hero” vid is awesome as well!
They’re adorable and I love that they’re trying to work together once in awhile now!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
-
AuthorPosts