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I don’t have any issues with things being destined either. But I also believe that Rumple/Mr Gold manipulated everything to do with how the curse plays out, as opposed to having “seen the future”. The question from a couple of pages back was how did Emma arrive on the exact date that had been predicted if it wasn’t something Rumple had “seen”. I’m just saying that if Mr Gold planted the ticket, that’d explain the perfect timing, and then my theory that he’s manipulating everything and he can’t really “see” still holds water.

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It’s probably safe to assume that the book mentions she’ll return on her 28th birthday. But even so, why would that suggest to Henry that it was HIS job to go get her? If it’s her destiny to return, then wouldn’t he just figure she’d show up of her own accord without him having to do anything like go and find her and drag her there? So why would he go buying himself a bus ticket?

But if a bus ticket with his name on it showed up out of nowhere, THEN he’d know he had a role to play.

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I’m super excited that he’s gonna be in two more eps this season! Also super relieved, coz it’d frustrate me to no end if we had to wait till next season to get some answers to the questions about this guy and where he’s from and where he went.

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Possibly, but if he had to look up bus timetables online, chances are he’d have bought a ticket at the same time and there’d be evidence of it.

Seems more likely to me that he just found a ticket that Mr Gold had planted, took it as a sign that he had a part to play, and went about figuring out how to get to the bus stop. If he lives in a town that no buses pass through and no one ever leaves, how was he to assume that it was his job to leave town and go somewhere else to get Emma? It’s not like the book said, “On her 28th birthday, Emma’s son will go find her to bring her back to break the curse.” He probably would have just assumed that it was destined to be, so she’d show up of her own accord. But if the bus ticket showed up, he’d have known it was his job to go get her.

PS. Gotta love that the convoluted answer is the one that seems more realistic to me, rather than the straightforward option. This show is good times. 😉

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My impression of that scene was that poor Moe just thought Mr Gold was pissed about the robbery, so when he started ranting, Moe had no idea what he was on about or why he was being beaten. I don’t think he remembers ever having a daughter, though I guess if his Storybrooke memories at all mirror his Fairytale memories, he’d think he used to have a daughter who had gone missing and/or died.

For me, the most compelling thing about the scene is, “My fault, what are you talking about my fault? You shut her out. You had her love, and you shut her out. She’s gone, she’s gone forever, she’s not coming back, and it’s YOUR fault! Not mine! You are her father!” I know he’s all scary ragey in that moment, but I just wanna hug him, coz you know that those lines were directed at himself as much as they were at Moe. He ends by bringing up that he was her father because he was trying to transfer all the blame onto Moe, even though really, he still blames himself for Belle’s fate.

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@Midnight Dreary wrote:

As viewers, we tend to throw out human values and standards and immerse ourselves into the world of make-believe.

Totally. In real life, I wouldn’t have been all “Awwww, how romantic” if I knew someone who was sneaking around behind his wife to have romantic picnics in the woods with his mistress. But though I was a tad conflicted when I saw it on the show, ultimately, “Those two crazy kids are so meant to be,” won out in my mind, because we’re not dealing with the real world here.

I can see where the Stockholm Syndrome folks get their dislike of Rumbelle. Personally, I see their relationship differently.

I see them less as prisoner and captor and more as equals. She wasn’t afraid to challenge him and believed in him from the beginning, despite his appearance. She saw through the Dark One persona to the good man within and wanted to help him find his way back.

Of course, if you’re someone who’s never seen goodness in Rumple, then you won’t be able to interpret their story like that.

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@Riddleraven wrote:

Nothing can be proven based on the original stories after all, because they take so much license with them. However, they are guides for the show.

It’s frustrating (in the most delightful way) that it’s hard for us to predict stuff, knowing how they like to turn the stories as we know them on their head.

I was pondering this very question yesterday, but just ended up confusing myself and gave up. LOL But now that you mention it, Imma try again…

We have seen the pic of Alice and the Caterpillar in Henry’s book, haven’t we? This would suggest that in the Once-iverse, Alice was indeed a child when she went to Wonderland and at least some events from the original happened in the show’s version. Dunno that that necessarily rules out her having come from our world, and I hope it doesn’t because that would be fun to see on the show.

I saw someone on another forum suggest that perhaps the Mad Hatter’s unending tea party (in the original recipe of the story) could have been him making up for the tea party Grace had wanted to have with him (in the Once version of the story), and I love, love, LOVED that idea, so much so that I think I’d actually be sad if that isn’t the case.

So if we run with that idea, then Hat Trick events happened before Alice visited Wonderland, therefore Alice couldn’t be Grace’s mother. It also means that the Hatter will either have to be set free or escape from QoH if he’s gonna set up his tea party at some point.

I wonder if we might see Alice go to Wonderland, meet the Hatter, who will tell her about his old life in another world, and she’ll help him get back to Fairytale?

That still doesn’t help shed any light on who Alice could be though. The more I think about it, the more I think she’s probably a brand new character we haven’t seen or heard anything about yet.

@Riddleraven wrote:

Jefferson said that Grace’s mother died because of him, somehow in connection with Wonderland.

He didn’t specify a Wonderland connection, he said “Because of my work, she lost her mother. I don’t want her to lose her father too.” I imagine Jefferson’s job probably involved him traveling to many different worlds, so Grace’s mother could have been lost as a result of him traveling to any number of places. I kinda like the idea that her mother was in the same business, but he does say “my work” not “our work”, so I dunno. Maybe he asked her to help him on a job once and it all went wrong?

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I just assumed she was Alice (even though she’s a brunette) considering they had a lingering closeup of the page at the start of the ep about Wonderland. But I guess she could be someone else and they just showed her in this ep to throw people off.

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It’s hard to get a good look at their faces in Fairytale, but they look like the same people to me, which would make sense.

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I haven’t listened to that podcast (yet) so haven’t heard what they say about it. But there was an interview with Horowitz and Kitsis at the Paley event where the interviewer mentioned that she’d looked like Nurse Ratched and the guys smiled and said that she’d certainly looked like Nurse Ratched to them too, so that’s pretty conclusive evidence as to who she was meant to be. 😉

@Caleb wrote:

It could be an Easter egg (Its a bit to obvious/purposeful, but you never know), we’ll know for sure its all the rouse if we see Apollo Bars being handed to the patients while they listen to Geronimo Jackson

😆

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