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I wouldn’t mind seeing Belle on her own for this half of the season/going into season 5 but I would very much like for RumBelle to be back together by the end of the series.
The writers don’t seem to know how to write RumBelle as a couple working together. They’re constantly separated. They’ve not spent a season where they haven’t been separated through some means or another. The curse, Amnesia, Neverland, Enforced Slavery, Banishment. Is it so hard for the writers actually having RumBelle work together towards a goal?
Out of interest, how do you think Rumple should win back Belle’s trust and forgiveness?
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixDay 17- Favourite Storybrooke Outfit
This one of Belle’s. It’s so simple and I like her curly hair.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixDay 16- Least Favourite Crack Ship (Non-canon)
Panlix- As a romantic ship since the friendship is canon. I can’t stand Panlix as a romantic pairing because there is nothing in-show to suggest there is anything more there than friendship. Why can’t two people just be friends without being paired up together? Even in-show both characters have kind of reiterated that there is nothing going on between them. Felix with the “Pan is the only family we need” line and Pan with his “love isn’t about romance or family, it can be about friendship and loyalty” line plus the fact that Felix automatically thought that Rumple was the thing Pan loved most. Is there any friendship on the show where the participants haven’t been paired up by fans?
Second place would be Belle and anyone who isn’t Rumple as a romantic ship because RumBelle is my OTP.
Third place would be SwanQueen as a romantic ship since the friend ship is canon. Same reason as Matt gave really.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixDay 15- Favourite Crack Ship (Non-canon)
I don’t do ships so I am not sure if the following are around on the internet, and if they are I don’t know what their ship names are but…
-Granny and Gepetto
-Emma and the Mad Hatter, Emma and ”really?”
-Regina and spicy lasagna
-Henry and his scarf.
Granny/Gepetto= Granpetto
Emma/Mad Hatter= MadSwan
Regina/Lasagna= RegalLasagna/EvilLasagna
Henry/Scarf= ScarfHen/Scarfry/HenScarf
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixDay 15- Favourite Crack Ship (Non-canon)
WickedCat- I’m probably the only one who ships this considering neither character actually met onscreen, but there’s just something about this pairing that works, they probably work better in a friendship with romance undertones kind of way rather than a full blown romance but I’m undecided on that one. Felix is loyal and Zelena has never had anyone really be on her side so it’d be interesting to see how that would dynamic work. They’ve both been killed by a member of the Stiltskin family so they’ve got that in common. Also Zelena looks older than Felix but is actually younger whilst Felix looks younger but is much older so the whole age difference is not straight forward and would actually be an interesting thing to explore with Zelena where she’s perhaps feeling insecure about herself rather than feeling jealousy towards Regina. It could calm Zelena down or it could just add more fuel to her hatred of Regina.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixSo maybe he shouldn’t have done it then! “My wife and love of my life is not going to like this because we both know it’s wrong and involves reverting back to a piece of myself that is not good…nah, I just won’t tell her! That’ll be totes okay.”
Rumple had 1 of 3 options:
1. He does TLK with Belle, breaks the curse and becomes powerless- All well and good until a new big bad comes to town and the heroes go crying to him for help only this time he can’t do anything. This also leaves Belle and himself vulnerable to whatever the big bad has in store especially if the big bad has a vendetta against Rumple specifically.
2. He keeps his powers and remains enslaved to the dagger- He’s running the risk of another Zelena situation happening. If it happened once, it can happen again, only this time the person might be 10 times worse than Zelena.
3. He frees himself from the dagger but keeps his powers- This sound like the best of the bunch, however it involves hatting people he doesn’t like, crushing the heart of someone he really doesn’t like who had tried to blackmail him and made threats against Belle in the past and present, and if Belle found out she’d hate him for it.
Rumple’s choices were powerless and vulnerable, powerful but a risk to others, or powerful but not a risk but achieving this through less than moral means. Whatever Rumple chose, there would be a downside, there was no “winning” or wholly “right” choice.
Well how does one earn forgiveness when one cannot earn trust. Why should she ever trust him ever again? She did once and he deceived and lied her all along.
“Forgive but don’t forget” is basically this in a nutshell. It will take a while for Belle to trust Rumple again. In fact I’d be quite happy if 4B ended where RumBelle had just reached that stage where they were starting to build bridges again and then season 5 built on that. I’m not expecting RumBelle back together by the end of 4B as if nothing had happened (though I do wonder if the 6 week jump is so that RumBelle are slightly further down the road towards reconciliation rather than if the story had picked up exactly after Belle kicked Rumple over the town line).
Yeah, I am aware of how human handle pain and the differences. And no where did I say they needed to mention Neal in every scene. But his father mentioning his son’s death–in front of his every eyes—golly, you’d think that’d be a factor for going down super duper evil route. But NOPE. Not even Adam and Eddy speak about Neal in their interviews. It’s all about Rumple’s selfishness. They deliberately go out of their way NOT to mention Neal’s death and how it’s affecting *anyone*–like Henry not talking about his dad at all this season. So far as A and E are concerned, Neal’s death isn’t a factor in this Rumple arc. It’s all about his selfish addictive nature.
A&E were too preoccupied with Shiny Frozen things! in 4A to bother doing any of the regular characters justice. As Screwball Ninja so succinctly put it, character development for the regulars was “frozen”. They had the perfect setup for WHY Rumple was doing what he did: Neal’s death, trauma from what Zelena did to him, etc, but instead the reason A&E gave for Rumple’s actions in 4A “just evil and selfish I guess”. It’s as if they’d forgotten the entirety of 3B. I was annoyed by their “Rumple is the devil himself” comment in one of their interviews because that is not the Rumple we’ve been watching for the past 3 seasons.
Dear god. Where did I say *that* I didn’t. I did not say alone and miserable. Some people are perfectly fine being alone and having inner peace. Especially…ESPECIALLY…after they’ve lost so much. They prefer to be alone. And again, I never said alone. He’ll always have Henry and you know Snowing won’t leave him alone, and Regina wouldn’t either. He can be a member of the family without having Belle.
1. Snowing does not give a crap about Rumple unless they want his help. In season 2, they were happy to leave RumBelle to die with the rest of the town whilst they gathered their friends in the diner and planned to portal out of there.
2. Henry only spends time with Rumple when he wants something, eg to have Rumple wipe his memory because he’s got the hump with Regina or to snoop around Rumple’s shop for Regina or to serve as a plot device to screw up the RumBelle relationship. He never spends time with Rumple because he wants to spend time with Rumple.
3. Regina is the most likely one to give Rumple the time of day but even that is dependant on what kind of mood she’s in, if she wants something or if she’s too preoccupied with OutlawQueen.
Whether or not romantic love is part of a happy ending for a character is dependent on the character themselves. For example, Emma spent her childhood feeling unwanted by her family, therefore her happy ending could easily be not romantic love but surrounded by her family. For Rumple, who’s spent his life feeling unlovable and the only person who accepted him was Bae, it would make sense that his happy ending would include Belle because she is the only other person aside from Bae who has accepted and loved him for who he is (also it’s a little late in the game to try and set up any new romantic relationships for the regulars).
And…what? He tired that particular happy ending? Um. No. He tried death. The happy ending I am describing isn’t death. Being alone isn’t death nor is it even akin to it.
What kind of happy ending is a character’s happy ending is dependent on the character themselves. Since Rumple’s spent much of his life feeling unloved and unlovable, it makes sense that his happy ending would include being loved. Since Belle and Bae are the only two people that have loved him, it makes sence that his happy ending would include Belle, even more so now that Bae is dead unfortunately.
No it wasn’t. Rumple had hours afterwards to stop his plan but he didn’t. He went ahead with it, but he wasn’t to have his hands metaphorically clean and tell himself that he was giving her a choice, but listen to his words very carefully. He’s not giving her a choice. He’s telling her that a hero would go into that room, and he’s not a hero which is why he wouldn’t. But for Emma, ture blue hero, that means going into that room. He’s using word manipulation, just like he always does, to get what he wants. The fact that Elsa showed up wasn’t part of his plan. And then afterwards, he said he’d get Emma or her power equivalency another way. And then! He didn’t care if she was controlled by Ingrid or lost her entire family!
Okay, 2 possible things.
1. If Emma had been hatted, that would have likely screwed up Ingrid’s plan meaning the SS spell might not have happened thus saving Storybrooke. Rumple said something along the lines of “I don’t need to betray all of Storybrooke, just you and Emma”. This has an air of “the needs of the many override the needs of the few”. Yes Rumple worked out how he could benefit either way but it seemed more of a Plan A/Plan B kind of thing.
2. Hatting Emma might’ve stopped Ingrid’s plans but because that didn’t happen, there might not have been a way to stop it once she sets the wheels in motion. Therefore Rumple resorts to plan B, saving who he can. Because of the ice wall preventing anyone from leaving, Rumple had to choose who to save because he couldn’t save everyone and obviously he chose the people who were closest to him.
Except the audience can’t decide what the conclusion is. You’re arguing a subjective conclusion and so am I. It doesn’t mean that your conclusion that you see is there is “right” just because you see it. Same as mine.
This we agree on I guess. So we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I get it. You want your OTP together. Like I’ve said 1000001 times now, A and E aren’t going to split up Rumbelle forever. 11 episodes from now, they’ll be happy once again because I’m sure that’s how they roll. Never mind that it will be poorly handled and won’t make much sense and will continue to reduce their once colorful characters to sad parodies of themselves because the focus is elsewhere.
By the end of the 11 episodes, I think RumBelle should’ve reached the stage where they are starting to build bridges again and then season 5 continues that. I’ll be honest I won’t complain if they are happily back together by the end of the 11 episodes but I do think it needs to take a little longer than that especially if the 11 episodes only span a week timewise and it’s the first time they’ve seen each other since Belle banished Rumple.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixMust be why Rumple was up front and honest with Belle from the start. Oh wait. He hurt her by lying to her. He doesn’t need to physically hurt her to be in that category. He lied, he manipulated, he magicked her. She put all her faith and trust into her, and he KNEW that, and still went and lied his lying pants off not to mention the hat sucking and the heart taking and the almost heart crushing. All of which deeply wounds Belle because Rumple’s actions have far reaching consequences, outside those that he is directly targeting.
Rumple has trouble opening up to people. A long held habit that has served him well over his lifetime. Rumple’s survived this long by not shouting his mouth off about his plans. Rumple knew what he was doing wasn’t right but there wasn’t any other way to be free of the dagger. And I could see why Rumple didn’t tell Belle, he knew she’d disapprove, he knew she’d hate him for it and he didn’t want her to hate him for it. Rumple couldn’t care less if he had the whole town against him so long as he had Belle on his side, he couldn’t bear to lose Belle.
Of course characters screw up. However, not all of them murder people in the process. Rumple’s motivations were 10000000000% selfish. Neal’s were not. And Emma *did* have a hard time forgiving him and she did not take him back. She admitted it was hard. She said it was painful. She didn’t know if they could go back to what once was. And then writers killed him.
“And then the writers killed him” is the main issue here. If Neal had lived, would you not be rooting for a SwanFire reunion? Nobody is saying Belle should take Rumple back immediately. We want Rumple to have to earn Belle’s forgiveness, not have it handed back to him on a plate.
Funny how he never ONCE mentions Neal when he’s giving a run down to Regina about why he is “taking” his happy ending. Funny how the death of his son never enters into a conversation with Belle (or even Hook or Ingrid) when she’s about to shove him over the town line. Coming back from the dead? Yes. Being held captive by the WW? Yes. Neal dying in front of his eye? NOPE.
The aftermath of Neal’s death has been handled poorly but just because Neal’s name isn’t mentioned in very scene doesn’t mean the characters aren’t affected by it. Some people have a hard time talking about the death of a loved one, sometimes they prefer not to mention it and just try and get on with their life and internalise the pain. Sometimes it is just bad writing that the character’s emotions aren’t clearly conveyed. Had Neal lived, would Rumple be in the place he is now? Probably not.
4A was too busy with the shiny Frozen things to give the original characters the character development they deserved so Rumple did come across as very power mad in 4A because his motivations weren’t explored and were only mentioned in passing.
And please…point to where I said Rumple should get told “screw you” and shouldn’t get a happy ending. You seem to think that a happy ending for Rumple *must* include Rumbelle. Well, Rumple is *never* going to have a happy ending…not a complete one. It will always be a bitter sweet one because Bealfire is gone. A happy ending does not, under any circumstance, HAVE to include some sort of romantic true love. Ever. For anyone.
I was talking about a general “screw you” not that you said he should get told “screw you”. And of course Rumple’s happy ending includes Belle, she loves him and he loves her. And for someone who believed he was unlovable, to have someone that does love him would be a happy ending. True, a happy ending doesn’t HAVE to include a romance but that doesn’t mean it CAN’T. It’s all dependent on the individual character, and for someone like Rumple, I believe that does include Belle.
Rumple’s bitter sweet happy ending can be peace of mind, tranquility, self love and knowledge that he made horrendous mistakes but that he’s atoning for it. He lost a lot, but he’s not the monster he once was. And yeah, maybe that means he doesn’t get the love life with Belle. Well, maybe that’s your price, Rumplestiltskin.
Yes because losing one love one permanently isn’t enough, Rumple has to be alone and miserable. And Rumple did try that particular “happy ending” you described, and where did it get him? Resurrected under the control of the WW with a dead son. The price for being “good” resulted in Neal’s death.
He wants power because he’s an addict. Once an addict, always an addict. There is no cure for addiction. He will always be an addict. You can take away his DO’s powers and he’ll still long for the power that he once had. The desire for power is only in part for protecting his loved ones. Or do I need to remind you that he tried to suck Emma, his son’s love and his grandson’s mother, into a hat and rob her of her powers and maybe even her life (depending on what fate lies inside that hat). So no. It’s not about protecting those he loves, not totally. It’s about himself. That’s how they’ve chosen to write him. No motivation was sound…it was selfish. Hence why at the town line he even says “I could have it all” and then catches himself before trying to reassure that it was for Belle too. As if Belle would ever want that from him. As if that is even remotely what Belle would want *for him* His plan also made ZERO sense logisitically. Magic doesn’t work outside in the real world, so cleaving himself from the dagger and then leaving SB is totally pointless given that he’s powerless (dagger or not!) out there in the real world. His entire motus operandi is himself at this point.
Rumple may be an addict but he has reasons that fuel his addiction including the fact that he believes he needs power to protect his loved ones and this belief is reinforced when the heroes constantly come running to him for help when a new big bad rolls into town.
Sucking Emma into the hat was not pre-meditated, it was a spur of the moment decision, and would’ve screwed Ingrid’s plan right up and might have even prevented her from unleashing the shattered sight spell sin the whole reason for the SS spell was so that Ingrid, Elsa and Emma were the last people standing. If Rumple truly wanted Emma in that hat, she’d be in the hat.
The writers didn’t explore Rumple’s motivation in 4A, too much shiny going on. They didn’t explore Robin’s conflict properly either, again too much shiny going on. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t there, just that the audience had to come to their own conclusion, which is bad writing.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixMajor difference is that Charming never hurt Snow. There was another party. Rumple is directly responsible for his own actions. Charming got caught up in Snow’s drama but *Snow* was never the one setting out to hurt Charming.
Rumple never set out to hurt Belle. It was other parties that hurt Belle ie Hook and Regina because they wanted to use her as a pawn against Rumple. Regina tried to use Charming against Snow. Hook planned to use Baelfire against Rumple.
He earned her trust and forgiveness once. And look what he did as soon as he had it. How many times until you realize that isn’t going to save a soul Until sometimes, love…it ain’t enough.
Characters screw up, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get a second chance to make things right. That’s like saying Emma should never have forgiven Neal because he abandoned her and she ended up in jail because of the watches.
You keep assuming that these are dependent on each other. Rumple can redeem himself, but that does not mean that he automatically gets his cookies back. Sometimes redemption is inner peace and tranquality and facing the consequences of your actions: his son FREAKING DIED AND HE STILL WENT ON THE SUPER DUPER EVIL WARPATH. He doesn’t get to come back from super duper evil warpath and get hugs and kisses from Belle because “oh, I promise it’ll be different THIS TIME!! Trust me!!”
He went on the “super duper evil warpath” because his son died. People don’t always react to grief in a healthy way. Yes Rumple had a backslide but why should he redeem himself and get told “screw you” when both Hook and Regina get to “redeem” themselves and get handed a happy ending?
And “so flawed that they can’t have love…” no he had love. And he threw it away because he wanted his power too. And now he has to live with those actions.
Rumple wants power so he can protect his loved ones but he doesn’t want to be controlled like Zelena did to him. Whilst his methods for achieving that goal were wrong, the motivation behind it is sound. Rumple had 3 choices and all of them had downsides. Rumple was in a no-win situation.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felixthat is unless Belle pulls a “Sandra Dee” and just goes full on Lacey.
I….would actually like to see this…. Plot Twist: Rump finally becomes full on good and Belle turns into Dark Lacey
I’d like to see this too only Belle going dark is the wake up call that Rumple needs to actually sort his act out and really redeem himself. Instead of Belle pulling him out of the darkness, Rumple realises he’s dragging Belle into it.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
