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@SmallWhiteButterfly wrote:
It is difficult to tell because he seemed to be very conflicted between wanting to be good and getting revenge.
Indeed! Loved how we had one scene where he was all, “I can’t part with him now, not when I know he’s the Dark One’s son,” and then another scene where he was all, “We can live the life that Milah wanted for us.” Both statements were genuine, and it just goes to show how conflicted he was over how he felt about this kid.
There’s just something about that scene at the helm…it starts off nice and fun, then there’s a moment where the mood suddenly changed, sort of like Hook was thinking, “Right, I’ve got him on side by letting him steer the ship, now down to business,” and then he asks about Bae’s father and launches into his story. It seemed planned.
Also, Hook doesn’t look at Bae while he’s telling the story. Sure sign that someone’s not being honest is if they don’t look you in the eye, and it was like Hook couldn’t look Bae in the eye, because he felt bad trying to scam Milah’s son. A couple of times he glanced over, but only for a split second before his eyes darted away again. I guess he could have still been telling the truth and just couldn’t look at him because he was using his story with the intention of manipulating Bae.
Basically, I’m not believing it unless and until we actually see it in a Killian flashback.
[adrotate group="5"]@Demileto wrote:
Is it even confirmed that story is meant to be legit? I’m thinking here he could’ve concocted that to get Baelfire to sympathize with him and spill the beans regarding Rumple.
When he first started talking, I was thinking it was heartfelt. By the end of the scene, I was convinced he’d made it up to scam Bae into spilling info. Hook already suspected who Bae was, but he couldn’t straight up ask him, “So, I’m guessing your papa’s Rumple and your mama’s Milah?” So instead he concocted a story for himself that he felt would strike a chord with Bae enough to get him to tell him what he needed to know.
I do think there’s some tragic story to do with Killian’s parents, I’m just not convinced that this was it.
There’s gotta be some way around the “once you set foot on land” thing, otherwise Hook and his crew were living on the sea for a helluva long time, and I know pirates love the sea, but surely even a couple of hundred years non-stop is pushing the love affair to its limit.
I like KFChimera’s idea about Hook having lost much of his crew when they went to try and save Bae, (please let him try to save Bae). PP would have let Bae go if he’d foreseen that the boy he eventually needed was going to be Bae’s son. But Hook getting Bae back would screw up that plan, so if Hook and his crew came looking for Bae, they’d have met with opposition.
Perhaps there was a certain specific time that Bae had to be released from NL in order for him to land at exactly the right place and time in our world to meet Emma and produce Henry. Emma’s existence and whereabouts were dictated by the curse, so PP had to coordinate FTL time, our world time, and NL time, (whatever that is) and kick Bae out of NL at just the right time. (Imagine the crazy T-word that PP has stuck up on his wall to keep track of everything.)
But now back to the topic of Hook leaving NL and how and why. I was sort of surprised that he learned about the dagger so quickly. Why then did he spend so much time in NL if he already had the info about the weapon to kill Rumple. I’d like to think that he was hanging around trying to hatch a plan for rescuing Bae, or even just hanging around in case Bae got in trouble that Hook could help him get out of. Could PP have eventually convinced Hook that Bae was dead, and that’s why he left? If PP does end up being the grand puppet master in this, then Hook was just another playing piece in the game to be manipulated, so PP probably wanted him to leave NL, which is why he could.
@Pan14 wrote:
I’m thinking – possibly – the reason that Greg and Tamara were getting their information so quickly is because the BF was the one supplying their info.
The glitch with this is that apparently Blue didn’t have her memories during the curse, and GOAT were clearly already carrying out their mission during the curse years. Therefore, Blue can’t have been feeding them info during that time, so why would she be doing so now?
I’ve proposed in other threads that GOAT’s boss in our world has a line of communication to PP, who may be the one who invented the failsafe, which is how GOAT are able to get info on magical stuff, and the failsafe in particular. I mean, seriously, that thing was meant to be something unique that Regina stuck in there, so how do GOAT know what it is after a matter of hours? Their boss must have a connection to someone with intimate knowledge of the failsafe IMO.
That doesn’t discount that Blue is still involved somehow. If the master manipulator in this whole story is actually PP trying to get his hands on Henry, as opposed to Rumple trying to find Bae, then Blue giving Bae the bean was one step in the very large plan of PP, and she may not have participated unknowingly.
@slurpeez108 wrote:
I don’t think the Lost Boys said Peter has ripped all of their shadows from them, because I believe Baelfire kept his shadow. I think Peter simply knows how to rip shadows, and has even done so to himself, making his own shadow his minion. Felix sounds like he’s even witnessed it. It might be a form of punishment or torture which Peter inflicts upon those who do not adhere to his wishes.
Felix: Do you know what he does to people who lie to him?
Hook: No. But I gather it hurts.
Felix: It does. He rips your shadow, right from the body. Rrrrrrrip.I don’t think Felix has just witnessed it, I think he’s experienced it. Which is why I’m still sticking with it being Felix’s shadow who brought Bae to NL. Also note that it doesn’t say that PP rips everyone’s shadow, just those who lie to him. So I don’t know that he wants Henry’s shadow specifically, he wants the whole Henry package for some reason.
@thebassgal wrote:
Or perhaps in Neverland, a shadow acts like a heart?
This is an awesome concept!!
@SpinningGold wrote:
BTW if in Neverland no one ages I hope they shot all of Bae’s scenes NOW rather than in 6 months when he has had another growth spurth. 😉
😆 I think it was Jeremy in a podcast for the previous ep who noted that portals apparently change your voice. 😉
@RumplesGirl wrote:
Sorta wishing right now that Rumple wasn’t heading into PP’s realm. 😕
Sorta wishing Belle was going with him because if it’s true that PP is his undoing, the one thing that might save him is TLK.
“Undoing” could still just mean a loss of his powers instead of death though, and losing his Dark One powers wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing that he’d need TLK to save him from. There have been some discussions paralleling the Dark One Curse to the Shadow. Maybe there’s gonna be some sort of convergence of those two dark energies and they’ll end up cancelling each other out, leaving both Rumple and Peter alive and mortal? And then Peter can tell them how to get out of NL, and that will be when they find Nealfire. Thus, the boy who was Rumple’s undoing, will lead him to his son. #prophecyfulfilled
@RumplesGirl wrote:
It would also suggest that PP was manipulating Rumple in the creation of the Curse, and possibly even manipulating BF giving Bae the bean, all pieces of the puzzle that would ultimately lead to the birth of the prophecide boy (Henry) and his being brought to NL.
Perhaps?
If Peter is the boy from the Seer’s prophecy and NOT Henry, then yes. I can see him manipulating Rumple with the Curse. (which he “found out” from Blue…many a moon ago, many of speculated that the BF might be TinkerBell. I wonder if that theory still holds water now that we’re going to NL and Peter is not sweet and cute…)
Sorta wishing right now that Rumple wasn’t heading into PP’s realm. 😕
As far as Blue being Tink, I could totally live with that, or even just with Tink having been a close associate of hers. Maybe Tink’s a double agent of sorts, making nice with the other fairies and trading info with them, but also doing PP’s bidding?
@PriceofMagic wrote:
Here’s a bit of fridge horror. The only people gathered in the diner ready to escape with the bean were the people Snow and Charming considered close friends.
They were going to leave Rumple and Belle to die, they were going to leave Gepetto and Pinocchio to die, they were going to leave Jefferson and Grace to die, they were going to leave Cinderella, Thomas and baby Alexandra to die, they were going to leave Abigail and Frederick to die, they were going to leave Dr Whale to die, they were going to leave Anton to die as well as the rest of the town. Red wasn’t in the diner so they were going to leave Red to die. All the people they had interacted with, either in Storybrooke or in FTL, they were going to leave to die.
Seriously, Regina “the evil queen” Mills comes out looking better in this episode than all the “heroes”.
Before the ep aired, in one of the discussions about whether or not SB would go POOF, I pondered how they could actually save the whole town of 1000s of people with only one bean. It was simply not a logical possibility, which is one of the reasons I figured the town would have to survive. It does seem very jarring to have only had a select few gathered there. Snow and Charming would not ever leave 1000s of their innocent subjects to just die. I have very few nitpicks with this ep, but that is one.
@KFChimera wrote:
What I can’t figure out about Tamara and Greg though is where all the “science” stuff came in for them as NL didn’t seem like a science driven place.
*edit– Unless the shadow ripping is shown not to be magical but “scientific”?
Maybe it’s just that the non-magical-land branch of the operation has no choice but to use science instead because they have no magic. Info they get about magic from the NL branch of the operation helps them to figure out the science they need.
GOAT report to the head of THO in our world. Their boss is the only one with a connection to NL. This is how they can get info on magical stuff so quickly. I pondered in another thread if the failsafe could have actually come from PP because he’d foreseen Henry in our world. If so, that would explain why GOAT got answers about the failsafe so quickly, because the guy who invented it was giving info to their boss in our world.
It would also suggest that PP was manipulating Rumple in the creation of the Curse, and possibly even manipulating BF giving Bae the bean, all pieces of the puzzle that would ultimately lead to the birth of the prophecide boy (Henry) and his being brought to NL.
Perhaps?
@Swanning-Off wrote:
I don’t think they’ll have many flashbacks next season. Flashbacks serve a purpose – we know all the pertinent facts about Snow, Charming, the Dwarves, Emma, Regina, etc.
What don’t we know?
– how Baelfire left Neverland, which you’re not meant to be able to do, and settled in 20th century New York to grow up
– how Rumplestiltskin knows Peter Pan
– how Aurora and Mulan found Phillip’s soulFlashbacks for those, but beyond that what do we need to know that will push the story forward? Not much.
Don’t forget the mermaids, we need to meet at least one of those. 😉 Guess they must have cut the bit where Hook was supposedly telling Bae about mermaids while teaching him to steer the ship. Bit of a bummer, because I’m dying to know what Onceiverse mermaids are like.
Speaking of the scene with them steering the ship, “Ah, once you get yer bearings it’s as easy as pie,” as he hooks Bae like a rag doll and pulls him over is adorable. All the wannabe-surrogate-father feels from Hook in this ep were wonderful, whether it was that lighthearted moment, or later when he’s begging Bae to stay so they can be family like Milah had wanted.
