Once and Wonderland connections, crossovers, comparisons, and spoilers – ONCE131 / WL012

Jefferson putting hand through looking glass to Wonderland (1x17 Hat Trick)


We only have a couple of weeks before the second half of the third season of Once Upon a Time begins, as well as the second half of the first season of Once Upon a Time in Wonderland but we just can’t help but talk about what’s in store for us next month. So before they come back, join us as we discuss general reactions and theories about these two shows in this crossover episode.

Jacquelyn and Erin J joined us for this discussion.

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Of all characters from both shows, Cora is one of the shows that every ONCErs are eager to see in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland. Being the Queen of Hearts, Cora is one character that the story could not go without. And since Will doesn’t have his heart, although he seems to know where it is, this particular scene seems like it was done by Cora. However, it could also be Anastasia who ripped it and not really Cora. Plus, if it was Cora who taught Anastasia everything she knows about magic, it could make more sense if it was Ana who took Will’s heart… IF she can rip hearts as well, that is, especially knowing her reasons are for siding with Jafar during the Winter Finale.

On the other hand, we haven’t heard Alice talk about the Queen of Hearts, since Will (Knave of Hearts) should have worked with Cora. However, it could also be because Alice has never met her when she was in Wonderland.

Speaking about parallels between the two shows, Regina (the Evil Queen) pushed her mother, Cora to Wonderland in Once Upon a Time. It would be interesting to see it in Wonderland. In addition, when the Evil Queen cast her curse, she took everyone with her in Storybrooke. Did she take the rest in Wonderland with her to Storybrooke as well? In Wonderland’s Pilot episode, Will was seen in Storybrooke. What about the Red Queen?

When Regina enacted the curse, Cora was seen in the Enchanted Forest with Hook, shielding the small part of the Enchanted Forest from her daughter’s curse with a dome using her magic. Looking back when Cora left Wonderland in the episode “Queen of Hearts”, is that when Anastasia come to power as the Red Queen?

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One of the major crossovers between Once Upon a Time and Once Upon a Time in Wonderland is the story-telling method; specifically flashback story-telling mechanism. To some degree, some flashbacks are topical, while the others meant to trick the viewers. We also noticed some similarities with the titles for both shows. Once Upon a Time 3×03 and Once Upon a Time in Wonderland 1×03 both had Robin Hood in it, and a lot of other similarities in the titling of the two shows.

While Once Upon a Time in Wonderland could have been a good filler while Once Upon a Time is on hiatus, not everyone was thrilled with the show. In the recent Television Critics Association winter press tour, ABC President, Paul Lee finally acknowledges the mistake they did with the show. In the interview, Lee admitted that they did not stick to the original plan to air the spin-off during Once Upon a Time’s hiatus. Click here to read the said statement.

Once Upon a Time vs Once Upon a Time in Wonderland

So which show is doing better? While each show have their own themes, Once Upon a Time has a better music; the sound effects meshed well with the emotions, as well as the things that happen in every episode. Wonderland, however, seem to lack in it; the music for Alice and Cyrus, however, fits them perfectly.

Once Upon a Time seems to be a family-centric show while Wonderland focuses more on finding lost love, but which series told the better stories? And while both shows tells a different story, Once Upon a Time in Wonderland seems to be doing a better job in telling a story compared with Once Upon a Time, especially when it comes to character development. In addition, there are a lot of episodes in Once Upon a Time that took time before they progress or for one character to get a character development. This could also be because Once Upon a Time have so many characters to show, whereas Wonderland don’t have as much characters than the other.

Speaking of characters, let’s put different characters from the shows in a cage fight as to who would win:

  • Cyrus vs. Prince Charming: Cyrus could have a magic but Charming killed a dragon. Moreover, Cyrus seems a bit more clever than Charming, what with Cyrus did with the bone in the episode 1×04 “The Serpent”
  • Red Queen (Anastasia) vs. Emma: The Red Queen may have some powers but Emma is the savior. Surely, she can take her down, right?
  • Rumple vs. Jafar: While both have the ‘not wanting to die’ thing, Rumpelstilstkin can take Jafar easily. But while he is the Dark One, Rumple have people he loves and Jafar can fly, so Jafar just may have a chance.
  • Alice vs. Snow: If both of them holds each other’s love hostage, who would win? Snow may seem tough, but she’s also too good to win over Alice so Alice may have a better chance at taking her down.

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General Reactions and Theories: Once Upon a Time in Wonderland

Corbin from the forum thinks that Jefferson got his hat from the White Rabbit. Looking back at Once Upon a Time, it was never really revealed where Jefferson got his hat from and how did it come to his possession.

Worse Parent

One of the most talked about in the forum is arguing who the worse parent is – Cora, Pan or the Sultan. While Cora is evil, part of everything that she did was because she doesn’t have her heart in her so she was immediately disqualified. As for Pan and the Sultan, however, both have theirs and abandoned their son on their own will. Who do you think is the worse parent? Cora, Pan or the Sultan?

Are we going to see any more character crossover with these shows aside from Cora? Is there a chance for us to see Emma, Snow, Charming, Hook, or Regina end up in Wonderland or Jafar, Cyrus, the Red Queen or Alice in Once Upon a Time? But even if they can cross each other’s series, how would it fare to the story? On a side note, a lot of ONCErs seem to be okay in seeing Will in Once Upon a Time.

Moreover, it is quite disappointing that there was no mention in Once Upon a Time of the giant hole left by Will in Granny’s Diner during Once Upon a Time in Wonderland’s pilot episode. They could have made a little comment, but the show stayed tight-lipped with it as if it never happened.

Now that Will become the new genie, what happens to him now, and where he is? Where will he end up and how can they find him? Are any of them going to die and sacrifice themselves to save the others? In Once Upon a Time, there are numerous characters that they can kill off mid-season (like Neal), but Once Upon a Time in Wonderland don’t have as much characters compared to Once Upon a Time. But storyline-wise, anyone from any of these two shows can be killed off if it will help develop the story further.

Now that we’ve learned that Will doesn’t have his heart in the majority of the episodes in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, it doesn’t seem to fit through with we have seen of how Cora had become when she ripped her own heart. While Cora stayed arrogant and wanted to gain more power, Will seemed to keep doing the right thing. Is it possible for them to retain their personality despite their hearts not being inside of them?

ABC is changing its online TV viewing rules for the fans. Right now, ABC is implementing a program wherein each viewer must verify their cable subscription on ABC.com prior to watching the shows the next day after it aired. If a viewer don’t have cable or a Hulu Plus account, however, then they would have to wait 8 days before the show becomes available to them.

Please keep in mind that the second half of the first season of Once Upon a Time in Wonderland will resume in March 6, while the second half of Once Upon a Time’s third season begins in March 9. Do you have a general theory about any of the two shows or both? Share it with us using the comment section below, joining us in the forum or sending us a message!

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Once Upon a Time Spoilers

  • All of the seven dwarves will be in the episode 3×12 “New York City Serenade”
  • Robert Carlyle is still contracted with Once Upon a Time but no word yet as to when he will reappear
  • New characters coming up – Rebecca Mader as the Wicked Witch of the West, Christopher Gorham as Walsh, Henri Lubatti as Lumiere (which has been renamed to Lawrence), and Alexandra Metz as Rapunzel, to name a few.
  • Gorham’s character, Walsh was cast to be a potential love interest for Emma but is it possible that he is working for the Wicked Witch of the West as well?
  • Henry in “New York Serenade” is going to be like Harry Potter in “Chamber of Secrets”
  • It seems that Neal also wanted to find his son and Emma as soon as he can, but how?
  • Meghan Ory will be back later in the season, and Rose McGowan is also set to reprise her role as Young Cora. No word yet as to when the two will come back, though.
  • In 3×17, Charles Mesure is set to come in to the show as the Blackbeard, a character from the Treasure Island. Based on the title, “The Jolly Roger,” it seems that he will have something to do with Hook.
  • ONCE has also found their Galinda – Sunny Mabrey, who looks perfect for the part.
  • Eric Lange was cast as young Prince Leopold
  • Eva Bourne is also set to reprise her role as young Eva
  • No word yet how long they’re going to be in Storybrooke but we are probably going to see it as early as 3×12
  • The Wicked Witch of the West has something to do with the new curse.
  • The Wicked Witch of the West and The Evil Queen may be clashing but they could also be related; more likely sisters!
  • Wicked vs Evil seems to be the brewing story for Season 3B
  • We will meet Rapunzel in 3×15 and Charming will come to save her!
  • Robin Hood and Regina are finally going to meet! In the premier, someone is going to get heartless. Word is Regina is going to take her own heart out because of the loss she felt from losing her son, Henry.
  • Someone is going to die. For real. There is so much debate on the spoilers, but most people take it down to Belle, Hook and Neal. Knowing the show, the fate is still up for anyone other than those three.
  • So far, we have got the titles up to episode 19.
  • 3×19 episode “A Curious Thing” relates directly to The Wizard of Oz, referring to the shoes; perhaps an Oz-centric episode.

Once Upon a Time in Wonderland Spoilers

  • Peta Sergeant was cast as the Jabberwocky
  • Episode 9 entitled “Nothing to Fear” was written by Richard Hatam and Jen Kao and directed by Michael Slovis.
  • We have got titles up to episode 13
  • Ruby COULD be seen in Wonderland… or someone who looks like Ruby,
  • Cora is heading to Wonderland as well. As to when and how, there is no confirmation yet.
  • 1×10 is going to be Cyrus-centric; telling how Cyrus became a genie.

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  • Shandelle

    Are Neal shippers delusional to the fact that multiple people directly associated with the show have stated that True Love’s Kiss DOES NOT WORK on memory loss?? Stating that Hook’s unsuccessful attempt at TLK on Emma at the end of mid season finale means he’s not her true love is just blatantly ignoring what show writers and show runners have told us. Plus we have two examples of this very thing from confirmed true love couples on the show. Snow/Charming when she had taken the potion and Rumple/Belle when she thought she was Lacey. You can lookup the clips if you don’t believe me. At this point, it’s up in the air who Emma’s true love will turn out to be. I lean toward Hook just because they seem to have focused more on developing that storyline and put much less emphasis on Emma/Neal. I just get so annoyed every time a Neal shipper says the unsuccessful TLK by Hook automatically means he’s not her true love because it wouldn’t work no matter who kissed her, including Neal.

    • Shandelle

      Aside from that, good podcast. I’m glad you guys are being a little more accepting of the fact that it could go either way and it may or may not be Neal or Hook or maybe neither.

    • http://DanielJLewis.net/about Daniel J. Lewis

      In every example you sited, “true love’s kiss” was one-sided, and thus not complete. Right now, Emma doesn’t know Hook, so he’s not her true love. Lacey didn’t know Rumple, Snow momentarily didn’t know charming, etc.

      TLK could still work, but Hook would have to become or re-become Emma’s true love.

      • Shandelle

        I don’t understand the response.. were you agreeing or disagreeing with what I said? lol. Because “TLK could still work, but Hook would have to become or re-become Emma’s true love” is exactly the point I was making more or less. A lot of Neal/Emma shippers seem to write off Hook immediately because TLK didn’t work at the end of the episode but the episode writers tweeted that TLK will not work when one person doesn’t remember the other. Or did you just mean that the couples weren’t confirmed true love at the time of these kisses?

        • Shandelle

          Basically, you can’t say that because Hook’s TLK attempt on Emma didn’t work NOW that he isn’t her true love in the long run; she doesn’t remember him at present, so TLK won’t work anyway. The writers and A&E all said that is how TLK operates during memory loss. But a lot of Swanfire shippers use the failed TLK as proof that Hook can’t possibly be Emma’s true love. But based on what the creators say, that’s simply not true. It can go any way at this point but saying Hook can’t possibly be a true love because of the failed TLK is ignoring logistics.

          • http://DanielJLewis.net/about Daniel J. Lewis

            Ha ha. I was a little confused by your first message, too. I thought you were saying TLK just doesn’t work in all cases as a writing flaw.

            So I think we agree. Hook could still be Emma’s true love, but not now.

      • jiminy

        actually, in season 1 of ouat, jiminy cricket explains, true love’s kiss will not work for snow when she took her forgetting potion. she wouldn’t know anything about truly loving anyone since she doesn’t even remember who she is. In snow’s case, that forgetting potion was suppose to erase the memory of who she loves but I guess if any curse/magic takes away your memories it changes who you are so you don’t remember who you are.

  • Sora

    I have a theory for Will’s inconsistent “heartless” behavior…aside from everything in Wonderland being inverted (i.e. “what it isn’t”). In OUAT, we saw in the Pan arc that hearts can be sort of transplanted and fused into other people’s hearts (Pan wanted Henry’s to make himself immortal, ect). Since Cyrus also mentioned the entwined heart idea in the pilot (what I like to call the Wishmaster pendant, lol), I’ve got a feeling Alice may have more “heart” than she realizes and perhaps being in close proximity to her affects him somehow? (revisit the face-off against Jafar in 1×04) That said, Graham was another “heartless” character with a demonstrated ability to do a good deed so, I think they do keep a lot of their personality; they only lose their feelings (and their free will, if their removed hearts are more directly manipulated).

    Who stole the heart? It could be Ana but, I’d say probably Cora. Whatever chummy apprenticeship the two may have had, Ana became a queen upon marrying the Red King…and there is “but one queen…the Queen of Hearts.” I think it’s more likely Cora took it for political leverage against Ana.

    Might the damage to Granny’s just have been attributed to storm damage since there was a storm on the way in the scene?

    Worst parent? Well, the Sultan hasn’t even admitted to actually being the parent yet…and, for all we know, may not be. Assuming he is, he would definitely take the cake. Pan abandoned young Rumple but, he didn’t try to murder him.

    Of all OUATIW characters, the Knave would make the most sense to appear on ONCE (unless, they decide to pick Ashley/Cinderella’s arc back up) since we’re probably going to get quite a bit of Robin Hood, as Regina’s newest OTL. Will Scarlet could make some worthy contributions to Robin’s arc.