ONCE032: “The Return” full discussion

April 26, 2012 by 20 Comments
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Baelfire and the magic bean The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

August is a big, fat liar; Bealfire had a bean; Emma declares war; and Rumplestiltskin plans his greatest work.

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Fairy Tale Land

First time we’ve seen a Storybrooke-only figure in the title screen. Daniel had been thinking there was a fairy tale character who rode a motorcycle, but Jeremy pointed out that it was Hagarid from Harry Potter.

Two things from Mr. Gold and Regina’s scene in the pawn shop carryover into Fairy Tale Land: Baelfire’s ball and the idea of turning someone into a snail and squashing them.

Mr. Gold might have the pawn shop to collect and carryover things that reminded him of his son.

Rumplestiltskin didn’t sound like the Rumplestiltskin we know. This is because the Blue Fairy said that his love for Baelfire is the only thing keeping Rumplestiltskin human.

Rumplestiltskin probably didn’t have the ability to spin straw into gold, yet.

August’s Fairy Tale Land character might have been linked to the maid. If not, how did August know about the dagger?

Yes, it’s the same Morrain as from “Desperate Souls.”

Morraine being taken by the Duke Desperate Souls s01e08 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Morraine being taken by the Duke (Desperate Souls-s01e08)

Morraine and Baelfire The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Morraine and Baelfire (The Return-s01e19)

Reul Gorm is Scottish Gaelic for “star blue.” Or we understand that to be another name for “blue fairy,” who was also the wishing star in Pinnocchio.

Blue Fairy said there’s “good magic and dark magic,” and that she’s on the “good side.” She could see the darkness in Baelfire’s life.

Morrain described Reul Gorm as an ancient beast who ruled the night and was the “original power.” Could she be the Dark One’s mother, or maybe a dark one herself?

Blue Fairy said that they lost some of their magic beans. Maybe Nova’s fault? Or maybe some beans dropped at Jack’s house, resulting in Jack and the Beanstalk.

The magic bean created a portal to a world without magic. Jeremy noticed the sound seemed the same as when Jefferson activated his hat.

How long might Baelfire have been in the world without magic (we assume our world)?

If the fairies’ magic and Rumplestiltskin’s magic don’t mix well, then why did he want the wand from Cinderella’s fairy godmother (“The Price of Gold”)?

If Rumplestiltskin is reunited with his son, will he be even more powerful? Or will this be a “true love” necessary to break a curse?

Rumplestiltskin suggested four ways of trying to get to where Baelfire went. Blue Fairy denies the first three

  1. realm-jumper (if Jefferson is a realm-jumper, this would mean his hat doesn’t reach Storybrooke),
  2. time tunnel or time-turner,
  3. a magic, or
  4. a curse.

Did the dark curse actually destroy Fairy Tale Land? Regina said to Mr. Gold that he created the curse for her, and “built all this.” We think the “all this” just refers to Storybrooke, and the rest of our world has always existed.

Baelfire called his father a coward, confirming what Rumplestiltskin had been called before.

Might Storybrooke be a kind of time-space bubble where only fairy-tale characters and enter and even see it. This is reminiscent of Brigadoon, the island in Lost, and Narnia.

Now we know why Rumplestiltskin created the curse: to find a way back to Baelfire. Maybe this means that Regina isn’t really the villain to beat, but maybe Rumplestiltskin will be. Or perhaps breaking the curse will release other villains.

Rumplestiltskin accused the Blue Fairy of taking Baelfire. This seems to be why he hates nuns (or seem to have all been fairies).

Storybrooke

August has strange shakes when he wakes up. Probably because of his sickness, whatever it is.

Who was August calling? Popular theories are Baelfire, Henry, Mother Superior (Blue Fairy), or someone else. Jane Espenson answered in a tweet, but we still have a hard time believing it.

Does Mother Superior (Blue Fairy) know about the curse? We’re split on this.

August and Baelfire have different colored eyes.

August has blue eyes The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

August has blue eyes (The Return-s01e19). Settle down, ladies.

Baelfire has brown eyes The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Baelfire has brown eyes (The Return-s01e19). Settle down, Morraine.

While August poking around Mr. Gold’s pawn shop we saw Jiminy’s magnifying glass.

Jiminy Crickets magnifying glass in Mr. Golds Pawn Shop The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Jiminy Cricket's magnifying glass in Mr. Gold's Pawn Shop (The Return-s01e19)

Jiminy Cricket at the royal counsel Pilot s01e01 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Jiminy Cricket at the royal counsel (Pilot-s01e01)

There’s also this odd “Shine” box and a pink oil tin.

Box of Shine in Mr Golds pawn shop The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Henry probably chose the bell as a gift to help mask any sounds August might make in the back.

Are Sidney and Dr. Whale telling the truth about their lies about Kathryn’s supposed heart?

Why don’t we have Pinocchio, or do we?

When Regina realized that evidence leads back to her, she grabs her necklace, which definitely isn’t Daniel’s ring.

Reginas black necklace The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Mr. Gold invoked a please.

Emma also wore a necklace with a swan on it. We noticed this in “True North.”

Emmas swan necklace The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Mary Margaret’s card from her school class said, “Congratulations. We’re so glad you didn’t kill Mrs. Nolan.” There were also several dwarfs at the party.

Couple dwarfs at Mary Margarets party The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Mr. Gold knows about names. Maybe Rumplestiltskin hid his identity between Baelfire and the Miller’s Daughter incidents.

In August’s room, we couldn’t read the words on the paper, but we could clearly see the wooden donkey paper-weight.

Augusts wooden donkey The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

The Nuns are at Sisters of Saint Meissa. This is Arabic for “white spot” or “shining.”

David and Mary Margaret are being separated by dark forces, and also don’t have true love. Consider a Biblical definite of love from the first book of Corinthians, chapter 13.

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. [1 Corinthians 13:4–7, NASB]

Mr. Gold visits Dr. Hopper! We had heard this would be coming from PaleyFest.

August and Mr. Gold meet and talk. But the place Mr. Gold takes him to for the dagger, is different from where we saw Mr. Gold “gardening” in “The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter.”

Mr. Gold and Sheriff Graham in the woods The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter s01e07 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Mr. Gold and Sheriff Graham in the woods (The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter-s01e07)

Mr. Gold and August digging up the dagger The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Mr. Gold and August digging up the dagger (The Return-s01e19)

Gold also confirmed that there isn’t magic in Storybrooke. August was hoping Emma would recognize her power and heal him. If Emma has magic, could she also have the ability to summon the Dark One?

RiddleRaven pointed out that August is a liar! Dan thinks he noticed a sapling after hearing August’s lie. Perhaps a Pinocchio clue?

August lies and theres a tree sapling The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

If August is Pinocchio, maybe his lying is killing him.

August said a “little fairy” told him about the knife. Who was this really? Mother Superior in Storybrooke, or a fairy back in Fairy Tale Land? But how recently is August from “over there”?

Mr. Gold wants August to keep trying to convince Emma, because Emma trusts August more than she trusts Mr. Gold.

Jenny points out the ship paintings at Dr. Hopper’s office. We’ve noticed these before, but hadn’t pointed them out.

Ship painting at Dr. Hoppers office The Return s01e19 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

We’re still sickened by Sydney’s blind obsession for Regina.

Emma and Regina are going to war for Henry. Jeremy suggests a great theory that Mr. Gold will get custody, along with being Henry’s grandfather if Baelfire is Henry’s father.

Obisgirl shares a theory that August is Baelfire’s son.

Talk about “The Return” in our Once Upon a Time forums.

Season-one finale party in Covington, KY

OUaT Finale Party 600x337 ONCE032: The Return full discussion

Join us and other Oncers for a season-one finale party at the Radisson in Covington, KY. Register and get more details here.

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  • crabtrem8

    This episode has really messed with my impression of the timeline. I used to assume that Rumplestiltskin was in the first Ogre War, but now I’m not sure.  Was there another Ogre war after Rumplestiltskin’s war? 
    Granny was a young girl after the 2nd Ogre War, that would be at least 60 years old.  But, Jimminy got the potion from Rumplestiltskin when he was in Beast Castle, and we know that was after Bae went down the Bean Hole.  Considering it is old Geppeto at the curse, we can assume that was at least 60 years.  So if time is linear for both worlds then Bae must be at least 101 years old; 13 when he left, 60 odd years to Storybrooke’s arrival, and 28 years until Emma.  Unless time is not linear, or the curse dropped them into the real world’s past to match Bae’s arrival.

    • http://obisgirl.tumblr.com obisgirl

      There have been many ogre wars.  This episode took place 7-9 months after Desperate Souls, probably even before Gepetto was born.  and way, way, way, long before Pinocchio became a real boy, which is why, I still stand by that August is not Pinocchio.  

  • fullquiver

    Nothing happens when James and Mary Margaret kiss in Storybrook, because there is no magic in this world.

    • http://About.me/DanielJLewis Daniel J. Lewis

      But we saw something happen when Sheriff Graham and Emma kissed.

      • fullquiver

        True.  Let me rephrase my comment.  James and Mary Margaret have no magic (at least at this point).  Emma does, however.

  • Promise7771

    I would love to bring up a point that I haven’t heard anyone mention as of yet, and I was hoping you could bring it up in your next podcast or in the discussion forum.
    Mr. Gold needs a friend! a REAL genuine friend that he can trust in Storybook. The only other relationships he has in his life are with his son and Belle. Both of which come with many challenges, and are not consistently present in his life for now. So how can Mr. Gold find this friend? My sister and I are convinced it could be Archie, and the meeting Gold has with him in his office when he is talking about his son is the icebreaker. He goes to Archie only because he has no one else to talk to. No other friends. And he knows that Archie is under that “patient/doctor confidentiality” rule after all. So how is it they could become friends? Well it would be an eventual process, starting with Mr. Gold going to Archie for more sessions. Something happens to Archie in an episode, and Mr. Gold having the power he has over the town helps him out. This starts the beginning of the friendship. Eventually, Mr. Gold and Archie start talking outside of therapy sessions. If the writers were to do this correctly and take their time in slowly developing this friendship, it could turn out to be a beautiful thing. The writers could show more involvement between Jiminy cricket and Rumplestiltskin as well in Fairy tale world. Rumple has no conscious it seems at times, and what better friend to give him than Jiminy? Eventually, I could see the friendship getting to a point where the two are close, they’re not afraid to call the shots on each other, there would be a lot of humor, sarcasm, and joking between them. There would be arguments, but resolution in the end. The series is still in its’ early stages for this idea to be feasible.  Another idea of how they start to become friends is Archie finding out information about where Gold’s son could be. He decides to help Gold find his son as a result. Ok, so what does everything think of this prospect?
    Loved your podcast, you guys are awesome!

  • http://www.facebook.com/djfirewolf Cole Ruffalo

    This is what I could make of August’s conversation with Mother Superior. August’s line was the hardest to hear, so it may not be 100% accurate.

    August: I understand, but that’s not exactly what I meant. Can’t believe he would’ve bought into this.Mother Superior: Just don’t do anything rash, please. Just tell me that you’ll come to me before you think of doing anything. Then things will work out.August: Thank you.Mother Superior: Okay.

    • http://About.me/DanielJLewis Daniel J. Lewis

      Huge thanks, DJ! I still don’t think that Mother Superior knows about the curse. However, I do believe that August probably went to her for “counsel,” but also to plant some information that Mr. Gold would find.

  • http://www.facebook.com/djfirewolf Cole Ruffalo

    Another thing, if Baelfire is somehow Henry’s father, that would make Rumple his grandfather and Regina his (step)grandmother.

    -DJ Firewolf

  • http://www.facebook.com/jess.siswick Jess Siswick

    I love the talk about the blue fairy, I reckon there is more to her than meets the eye, and has a bigger role to play in closing episodes. I recokon this because in the pilot episode emma wishes upon a blue star on her birthday cupcake before henry arrives. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/jess.siswick Jess Siswick

      So this tiny little thing about Emma Wishing On a Blue star candle makes me think there is more to fairy magic than meets the eye, perhaps, as with the 3 fairies in sleeping beauty, they cast blessing on the baby, which might explain emma’s “super power” and emma’s connection with magic. 

    • http://About.me/DanielJLewis Daniel J. Lewis

      WHOA! Nice catch, Jess!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jess.siswick Jess Siswick

    Also, I don’t mean to be a comment whore, as was mentioned in the podcast we have seen a LOT of Pinocchio characters, who all seem to be key in Emma’s arrival into the real world.  Gipetto: making the vessel, The Blue fairy: finding the enchanted trunk, (which, as i said in my comment below, leads me believe that the fairies may have a plan of sorts, and may have been the one to create this “prophcy” about Emma) but still not the boy himself. My theory is that  gipetto sacrificed his only son, and Pinocchio did go through like Emma, as a wooden boy made from the same enchanted oak, to be Emma’s guide, to be the one to explain her purpose, but in a new world with no conscience to be his guide lost his way. Maybe bought a motorbike, went to Nepal, eh eh? 
    Also this whole idea of sacrificing your son would tie in well with storybrooke and the Henry custody battle. It’s late. I’m typing nonsense. 

    • http://About.me/DanielJLewis Daniel J. Lewis

      That’s not nonsense at all! I hadn’t considered that if Pinocchio somehow did come with Emma, he wouldn’t have his conscience.

  • Amanda

    I think that August is the Tin Man from “The Wizard of Oz” -
    He is slowly turning back into tin – thats why his legs hurt, and why he thinks he is dying he needs a heart and who has lots of hearts??….
    Also when his leg hurt near the toll bridge there was also water there – legs becoming rusty??….

    • http://About.me/DanielJLewis Daniel J. Lewis

      I think he’s definitely turning back into something. I hadn’t thought about turning back into tin.

  • http://www.facebook.com/djfirewolf Cole Ruffalo

    Also, that box is a 5 cent shoe shine box, as seen here:

    http://www.etsy.com/listing/82848212/vintage-shoe-shine-box-5-cent-carnival 
    I dunno if it’s important if the prop department didn’t make it themselves, but it does stand out and what comes to mind is the Shoemaker and the Elves and also “KISS MY BOOT!” XD

    • http://About.me/DanielJLewis Daniel J. Lewis

      “SHINE MY BOOT!”

  • CharmingsHeart

    I believe that David and Mary Margaret do have true love but the curse is messing with them and causing them, especially David, to make poor choices. Adam and Eddie have said many times that the curse is controlling them; it is the “dark force” they are up against. 
    Mary Margaret has spent more time with Emma(“the savior”)  and she has grown stronger. Regina is still acting as David’s “guardian” and has entirely too much influence over him. Somebody(Emma or even Henry) needs to clue the poor guy in so he can see Regina for who she really is——if and when this happens I hope we’ll see a stronger, smarter David break through.

  • crabtrem8

    I just watched the episode again.  Did I hear right, the man with the donkey cart at the very beginning called the donkey Emma? Magic isn’t supposed to work, but some how Regina was able to kill the Sheriff by crushing the heart in the box; that seemed like magic to me.  The Mad Hatter disappeared into Emma’s hat, that counts as magic.  It has clearly left Rumplestiltskin though. He limps again and the knife has no power over him.
    As a side note, I just watched the trailers for the new Snow White Movie, Snow White and the Huntsman; this movie looks really good.  What I found interesting is the Evil Queen’s name in the movie is, ‘Ravenna’.  She uses and turns into Ravens. Very similar sounding to Ragina.
    I know everything seems to point towards August being Pinocchio, but the way the show has twisted and turned I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t.  Way to keep the suspense up. 
    I really want to see what Rumplestiltskin has been doing to find Bae?  I wonder what would happen if the curse is broken too early, and Gold hasn’t found Bae what happens?  Or does the breaking of the curse even return them to FTL?  The whole point is Gold needs to stay in that world when he finds Bae.