Search Results for 'emma'

[thedarkonedearie]

The only way “The darkness made him do it” excuse works is if the show applies across the board. But they don’t. For Rumple, he is simply a bad man. It’s never “yes, he tortured Robin Hood, but the darkness made him do it because that’s how insidious it is.” It’s “Rumple is power obsessed and can’t give up his grip on the darkness.” But for Hook it’s “he didn’t mean to almost kill all of Emma’s family and send them to hell. The darkness made him do it.” It’s very much a double standard but with Hook, like you said, it gets washed away in order to sell the narrative that he’s a good guy.

Don’t forget that Hook didn’t want the darkness because he knew how it would affect him.  Rumple keeps going back to it willingly.  And I think it’s safe to say that Rumple changed a lot once he became the dark one.  The darkness obviously affected him.  He went from being a coward, but otherwise a good father, to not only a coward, but a ruthless human being.  And obviously the darkness changed Nimue too.  I think it’s decently documented how the darkness changes people.  So I didn’t have as big of a problem with Hook’s fast dark turn at the end of season 5a as others did.  It was rushed, yes, but I was OK with it.  There were far bigger issues I had at the end there than that. That’s all I’ll say haha.

[RumplesGirl]

Unless this is actually some sort of brilliant meditation on the hypocritical nature of humans, that essentially all these characters we’ve come to know for years now are just in the grips of complete and utter dissociative psychosis and have no sense of what way is up.

I could live with that but I also believe that the show/writers aren’t capable of being that deep and contemplative.

This is just hopeful thinking which I know won’t be true cause “Hook is the best, he’s hot”.

The only way “The darkness made him do it” excuse works is if the show applies across the board. But they don’t. For Rumple, he is simply a bad man. It’s never “yes, he tortured Robin Hood, but the darkness made him do it because that’s how insidious it is.” It’s “Rumple is power obsessed and can’t give up his grip on the darkness.” But for Hook it’s “he didn’t mean to almost kill all of Emma’s family and send them to hell. The darkness made him do it.” It’s very much a double standard but with Hook, like you said, it gets washed away in order to sell the narrative that he’s a good guy.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Bar Farer]

The show clearly tries to be Buffy so hard. I would like to add more points.

In “Buffy”, after she sends Angel to hell and he comes back, her friends, understandably, weren’t supportive of their relationship because Angel tried to kill them all, as well as with her relationship with Spike. The characters in “Buffy” weren’t affraid to call Buffy out on her problematic relationship. Something that OUAT is affraid to do because then it would point out all the flaws of Emma and Hook relationship and enable viewership to think if that relationship is problematic. It is something I saw with Regina and Robin relationship when Regina admitted to Snow that she had adulterous sex with Robin, and Snow, instead of saying “This is wrong”, encouraged her.

Which is why the characters in OUAT seems so unrelatable, because they don’t act as what normal people would in those situation, and I’m tired of the excuse that this is a fantasy show, that this isn’t real. The point is that characters should have real emotions and real reactions in a fantasy setting.

OUAT could never be like Buffy even if it wanted to because Buffy is a character driven show. Everything that happens has a goal to serve the characters and develop them as opposed to OUAT where characters have become templates to drop plot on them that won’t affect them and won’t develop them. The villains in Buffy never got the depth or the “Grey” like OUAT’s villains cause their whole point is to affect the main characters, these villains are going to be off the show once Buffy defeats them so there is no point in wasting time in order to make them sympathetic or showing the backstory of why they became the way they are.

Even Charmed, which became silly in its later seasons depicted a woman getting out of bad relationship.

I just hope for a conversation between Emma and Snow, in which Emma tells her that what she and Hook had wasn’t love, that she was weak and tried to fill the hole in her heart, which was created after Neal died and Hook was easy, it was easy to be in a relationship with him, that she couldn’t lose Hook cause losing him ment that she’ll return back to the hole that was created after Neal died. Hook was a distraction from realizing the lost love with Neal, which will make sense cause in 5A there were moments where I thought that that is what they try to do such as Henry using the song, Emma cries with a dreamcather in her hand, Emma deflecting Zelena when she said “I killed Neal”, trying to avenge him, using Regina’s tear for her loss of Daniel, instead of Emma’s of Neal, which might have worked, Regina trying to bring out the truth from Emma, which later we realize is a commitment issue with Hook that could have been related to Neal, how can she find tallahassee with someone else.

This is just hopeful thinking which I know won’t be true cause “Hook is the best, he’s hot”.

"All your questions are pointless"

[PriceofMagic]

With certain aspects of 5A seemingly influenced by the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which coincidentally Jane Espenson collaborated on, I wonder if CS is actually Once’s imitation of the Spike/Buffy pairing (reformed villain/main hero), only A&E completely missed the point of Spike/Buffy.

Spuffy was not written to be viewed as an ideal relationship. It was completely unhealthy for both people involved and was played as such. Spike became obsessed by Buffy whilst Buffy’s attitude to Spike blew hot and cold to the point where he didn’t know if he was coming or going. One minute Buffy would sleep with him, the next she’d tell him to leave her alone. Buffy would say he disgusted her then she’d seek him out for sex to make herself feel better only to then be disgusted by it and the cycle went on and on culminating in Spike attempting to rape Buffy.

Spike was meant to be killed off in season 2, however he proved so popular that he was kept on. He disappeared for season 3, guest starring in one episode before returning full time in season 4. Since realistically Spike wouldn’t be able to last if he was still in villain mode and killing people, the show came up with a plot device that enabled Spike to transition from villain to anti-hero and stick around for the rest of the series.

Spuffy didn’t actually get together until season 6 and the “romantic” relationship didn’t last the season. It was shown to be unhealthy from the start. Buffy was in a bad place after being dragged out of heaven and brought back to life and she latched on to Spike because she wanted to feel something. It wasn’t love. Emotions were toyed with, and the lines became dangerously blurred on what constituted consent and what didn’t. Buffy and Spike somewhat mended their relationship in season 7 although it was in a non-romantic sense. When Spike was about to die and Buffy declared “I love you” to him, Spike turned around and told her “no you don’t but thanks for saying it”. The characters recognised that what they had wasn’t real love.

How does this compare to CS? Hook appeared in season 2 as a villain, got “reformed”, became obsessed with Emma, started a “romantic” relationship with Emma, etc. Basically A&E are writing their version of Spuffy but are displaying it as this “great romance” instead of showing how unhealthy it really is. Whereas the Spuffy dynamic evolved naturally, CS has been rushed through. There is no reason why Emma is interested in Hook other than poor writing and the fact that A&E need to shoehorn Hook into the story somehow.

If A&E hadn’t caved to fan pandering, CS could’ve been a golden opportunity. They could’ve shown that “strong” women can and do find themselves in unhealthy relationships through no fault of their own. They could’ve shown Emma struggle to get out of that situation and played it as realistic even though it involves two fictional characters. As it is, A&E are displaying it as a “true love” story and that is wrong on so many levels. Emma is a shadow of her former self, yet supposedly this is considered an ideal for her.

Impressionable young people watch this show, and actually it is partly through the media that they learn to distinguish between what is considered a good relationship and what is not as that is where they’ll get exposed the most to “romance”. Spike was a good looking guy, but the relationship he had with Buffy was not good, and Buffy was shown getting out of that and calling it quits when Spike went too far.

CS on the other hand, is worrying. There is no denying that Hook is good looking even with the Hook, but nobody is calling him out on his manipulative behaviours. He obsessed over Emma to the point where he had to “win” her. He was confident he would as he told her “WHEN I win your heart, and I WILL win it” instead of using words like “if”. In season 4, Hook put on the nice guy act for Emma and her family but was shown to be blackmailing Rumple for his own gain. This came to bite him in the arse, but rather than portraying both men for being in the wrong, Rumple for controlling Hook via his heart, and Hook for trying to blackmail Rumple in the first place, the show tried to absolve Hook of all blame while completely vilifying Rumple. In season 5 Hook deliberately said some very nasty things to Emma because he wanted to hurt her. The show wants to make out that it was the Dark One talking rather than Hook, but the thing is we’ve had 4 seasons of Rumple as the dark one, and not once has the show excused Rumple’s actions as “it was the dark one, not Rumple” so why is that excuse now being used for Hook?

As weird as it may sound, it’s almost as if the actual unhealthy relationship is between Hook and the show itself. Hook does less than stellar things and the show goes out of its way to make excuses for his actions. “He was upset”, “He was controlled”, “It was the dark one talking when those hurtful things were said, not him”, “He didn’t mean it!” The show needs to get out of its unhealthy relationship with Hook because until that day, CS is going to be displayed as this paradigm of virtue rather than the mess it actually is.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Bar Farer]

This is a post that i saw on a girl called KiKi on tumblr, she says some good things, was answer to some other post on tumblr, here , is about how media and some actors from outside the ouat cast, actually support the bullies by encouraging them, this was about a TV line article where someone was talking bad of Rumple and matt agreed with that person and even answered someone to not make any more Rumbelle questions.

This is, sadly, a pretty explicit example of exactly why the fandom is the way it is and why the CSers/Hook stans have become such a huge problem. The people with influence let them. Beyond that, they even encourage them. It starts with Kitsowitz, in particular AH, who only gives consistent attention to one group while ignoring most others, and who responds to criticism with childishness. His favoritism toward CSers and his silence toward their behavior enables and encourages them. And that bleeds over into the people like Mitovich and Yvette Nicole Brown. People who technically aren’t involved with the production of the show, but are involved in it in a peripheral way, and whose position or “fame” gives them influence. In reality, they’re little more than fans themselves, but their position elevates them. So like the rest of the CSers/Hook stans, they take their cues from Kitsowitz. (Though considering the behavior some of these people, like YNB, display in other fandoms where the writers aren’t quite so encouraging to bullies, she’d behave the same way regardless). Dismiss those who criticize. Dismiss those who have problems with canon. Blatantly insult those who don’t agree with you. The CSers/Hook stans see that. They see the other groups and fans being dismissed by the writers. They see the other groups and fans being dismissed and bullied by these “big name” fans of influence. And they get it into their heads that it’s okay, that this is the way people should be treated. And they follow the lead. And then Kitsowitz and these fans of influence see it, and either ignore it, as Kitsowitz does, or encourage and take part, as people like YNB and Mitovitch have done.

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Mitovitch and YNB want to stay on A&E’s good side. I just hope once the show is over that some of the people involved won’t stay quiet. What bothers me the most is that by trying to hide their incompetence, they lie about what they originally planned and claim that they “planned” Hook and Emma since season 1 AFTER the fact, letting CS fans feel that they are the “true” fans that saw the “true” story being told, while there are a lot of evidences that suggest otherwise, A&E’s interviews and interviews with JMO, MRJ, Colin and Eion back when season 2 aired. In addition, do they really believe we forgot about the money he left her but she never got and that was never explained?!

Moreover, the fact that they never defended MRJ when he got all the hate and when those horrible rumors about him were made up as well as how they don’t defend Lana really disgust me. These are actors that has been working for you and they suffer because you can’t stand up against that group in the fandom and call them out on their bad behavior.

I just have no respect for these guys and anyone who enables them to continue with this.

"All your questions are pointless"

[PriceofMagic]

I’d be annoyed if Emma and co started dictating what Rumple should and shouldn’t do in the Underworld. They already demonstrated in 5A that they would be willing to throw Rumple under a bus so long as they benefitted from it, it was only Belle who called them out on it.

The “heroes” annoy me so much because we’re meant to believe that they’re a force for good but they are so self-centred, they don’t give a damn about anyone else so long as they’re okay. If there came a choice between saving one of their own and dooming the town, they would doom the town because they don’t care about anyone outside their inner circle. This has been going on since the end of season 2 when the “heroes” were ready to bean hop out of a disintegrating Storybrooke yet were happy to leave behind RumBelle, Hansel and Gretel, Jefferson and Grace, Pinnochio and Gepetto, etc. Emma and co were willing to leave CHILDREN to die rather than try and save as many people as they could because all they cared about was saving their own skins.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

Ok, a slightly off-topic theory about Rumple/Neal/Underworld. Sorry if someone already posted something to this effect: Ok, we know that Rumple’s now DO on steroids, which has been explained as him having the power of all the DOs combined. But does that also mean he’s hosting all their souls (the same way that Hook was hosting Nimue)? If so, then would these souls be “tradable,” from Hades’s perspective? Technically, depending on how Hades’s accounting works, he’s N=[however many DOs there were] souls short, now that all those DOs are “archived” with Rumple. Unless the souls got distilled into pure power, but I don’t think there was anything in the script that suggested this. If leaving the Underworld is all about a soul for a soul, I wonder if this might be one way in which our “heroes” bust people out — instead of sacrificing one of the group, they might have Rumple give up some of the souls/powers (but not necessarily all) — whether for Neal, or for several people (Hook? Cora?). This would allow the writers to keep Rumple a magic user, while returning him to a moral gray area, rather than all black — which is sort of where they seem to like him. Or they also might make a deal with Hades to kill (or try to kill) Rumple to release the errant souls back into the Underworld, thus brokering some sort of arrangement for whoever is coming back. Thoughts?

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I actually think that this makes a lot of sense. there was a recent spoiler about the fact that the heroes may learn that the souls don’t have to stay in the Underworld. At the time, I obviously leaned towards Emma since her Savior Status would suggest that she’s the one to break souls outta “jail.” Her very own harrowing of the Underworld, as it were. I don’t know if it would be Rumple willingly giving up some of those collective souls–especially for Hook–but I could see Emma making the hard choice and forcing Rumple to do such a thing, both claiming that she’s protecting the town (by reducing Rumple’s collective-soul power) and that the souls she saving do not deserve to be in the Underworld in the first place

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Bar Farer]

PriceofMagic wrote:

Rainbow wrote:

I dont like this reporter very much mostly bc she is very anti neal and very pro SQ, but her articles are in some way funny http://www.bustle.com/articles/140102-once-upon-a-time-season-5b-could-save-someone-from-the-underworld-but-will-it-be

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I thought that report actually sounded positive towards Neal.

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Yeah on this one, but she did a previous one where she called him jerk, for dating a minor and that send emma to jail pregnant, but in this case, like most SQ fans, if no SQ, bwt Hook and Neal they prefer Neal.

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I honestly don’t understand that logic, she claims Neal is a jerk because of what he did to Emma, but Regina is a saint for seperating Emma from her parents and making her grow up alone?

Sometimes I like OUAT critics for pointing out the ridiculous things that OUAT does, but I don’t understand how a professional critic can point out the flaws of one character while neglect the flaws of the other.

"All your questions are pointless"

[Rainbow]

Rainbow wrote:

I dont like this reporter very much mostly bc she is very anti neal and very pro SQ, but her articles are in some way funny http://www.bustle.com/articles/140102-once-upon-a-time-season-5b-could-save-someone-from-the-underworld-but-will-it-be

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I thought that report actually sounded positive towards Neal.

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Yeah on this one, but she did a previous one where she called him jerk, for dating a minor and that send emma to jail pregnant, but in this case, like most SQ fans, if no SQ, bwt Hook and Neal they prefer Neal.

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[RumplesGirl]

Personally I think the finale might be more “epic battle” because while I suspect our heroes will think they’ve defeated Hades in 520 (also his centric), he’ll come back (how does one kill a god?) in 522/23 to do something dastardly to SB that brings about a cosmic war for the finale. Perhaps he brings “Hell on Earth” and Emma must not only face down Hades, lord of the Underworld, but also his Walking Dead; the former Emma casts back into Hades and the latter Emma saves and sends off to some Heaven-y type deal.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"